Best practices

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quazoosl
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Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:27 am

Does anyone have advice/information on best practices for TopSolid?

I'm tasked with implementing TSWood and TSCam. Our ERP system is Plan de Campagne, and we're buying the link for for BOM info.

We've decided to start with our wardrobes.
Last edited by quazoosl on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by RaudMees » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:54 am

Yes I have. I can write a book about this workflow :)

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Laurens
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Re: Best practices

Unread post by Laurens » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:26 am

hi quazoosl,

For me there are a few "rules" for TSW modeling:

-try to keep the number of operations on every part as low as possible. For example, don't extend a constraint block but rather alter the shift on a side. This gives you a model that is less likely to cause errors or long loading time.
-when using components try to keep them like lego blocks. Rather than making a component of an entire wardrobe make a component of the base frame one for shelves and one for drawers and one for the plinth, then combine these to build your wardrobe.
-try to model all your parts to one main block and not to other parts. Doing this will make your model more flexibel, if you remove your cabinet side and all your parts will go invalid you know you constrained to much to each other.

I don't know what sector you are working in and how many times you have to modify the design of your items a lot but if you do, the rules above will help a lot.

if you have any more specific questions feel free to ask.

Laurens
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Re: Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Thank you guys, much appreciated.

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:15 am

I could always use some more input. :)

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by Laurens » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:28 pm

well if you would give a global layout of how you plan to make your models and all that belongs to it ill be happy to provide some feedback. :wink:
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Re: Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:34 pm

Hello Laurens,

Thank you. We make furniture for children daycare centers. Much wardrobes we make have a standard way that they hare made, but dimensions/combinations vary a lot.

The plan is the following:
- all materials of library parts/laminates are generic (corpus_1 etc.)
- all edge laminates attached to the parts
- all connectors/hinges/back-panels etc. have their required holes/grooves/etc. attached to them.
- corpus in a driver block.
- back panel in a driver block
- doors in a driver block, with std. hinges. attached
- Connectors in kits
- standard propagations for connectors/hinges etc.
- multi-draft templates for the drawings, having thes cale of the parts adjust to the available window on the paper.

I'm still doubting whether I should use the double wrapped driver blocks.
Also, I'm wondering about a strategy for our side panels. Our corpora are enclosed and (mostly) evenly devided by side panels. I'd like to be able to set a total width, subtract the thickness of the side panels, and have the corpora evenly devided in the space in between. Any thoughts?

Since I've just started the CAM course, I don't have quite a concrete plan for that yet.

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by Todd » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:54 pm

if you explain what Corpora to me I might have more to say I don't understand the context in witch your using it? :?: :? do you mean cabinets or dividers between two finished end panels?
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Re: Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:57 pm

Yeah, I couldn't find a better word. Basically corpus would be a sets of four panels: left, right, top, bottom. (and corpora as plural)

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by Laurens » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:01 pm

ive commented on a few of your points keep in mind that this is only my personal opinion and not the golden rules for making models in TS. you will find your own dos and donts as you go along

The plan is the following:
- all materials of library parts/laminates are generic (corpus_1 etc.)
changing material after placing a component is possible but you could try to manage your material with a catalog for faster picking
- all edge laminates attached to the parts
unfortunatly i dont have much knowhow on edge laminates as we do not use that function were i work
- all connectors/hinges/back-panels etc. have their required holes/grooves/etc. attached to them.
- corpus in a driver block.
- back panel in a driver block
if it is only one panel you could just make the block you insert your component into your back panel. since you need a space to place your driver you might just as well make a constrained block and call it your back panel.
- doors in a driver block, with std. hinges. attached
if the design always varies a bit i think you would be better off placing the hinges in place rather than have them come with the door. should you have a shelve or something at the place of the hinge its not so easy to move it, but if its in place you can just slide it to an other location
- Connectors in kits
- standard propagations for connectors/hinges etc.
the more you pack things up in standard items the more you lose your flexibility so make sure its always the same if not its better to put it up from 0 in every model
- multi-draft templates for the drawings, having thes cale of the parts adjust to the available window on the paper.

good luck
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Re: Best practices

Unread post by Todd » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:29 pm

In comparison to you questions here is what we do at my work.
- all materials of library parts/laminates are generic (corpus_1 etc.)

for our wood parts material and coating is set to To Be Determined and defined in the assembly where its used

- all edge laminates attached to the parts

we don't do a lot laminate but use the panel function for this

- all connectors/hinges/back-panels etc. have their required holes/grooves/etc. attached to them.

the methodology we use is if I have a horizontal divider and I'm using blind dado construction then the tooling and fasteners will be included with this component. So adding or removing it also removes or added the machining and attachment's necessary for that part

- corpus in a driver block.

we have all our components as separate parts to be able to make any custom cabinets and we have the same parts per-assembled into our standard cabinet construction methods

- back panel in a driver block
yeah we like I said above make all your parts separate with there need tooling, hardware fasteners then assemble them or have a pre-assembled component of components

- doors in a driver block, with std. hinges. attached

Per above comments from Laurens you can always add driver to propagation to be able to shift a specific instance in both your shelf component and your door with hinges assembly that's what we do here we have very intelligent components just keep in mind your file size's and how many times your use super smart components can increase that a lot for large assembly's

- Connectors in kits

I find these only work best for casework and simple joints I rarely use them because were so custom with our work

- standard propagations for connectors/hinges etc.

yeah these are nice if you have shop standards for typical fastener & hardware layouts

- multi-draft templates for the drawings, having thes cale of the parts adjust to the available window on the paper.

I'm still doubting whether I should use the double wrapped driver blocks.

its powerful if you use it correctly I use it for single cabinets doors with hinges included as one example
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Re: Best practices

Unread post by RaudMees » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 pm

Hello

I write my experience as short as possible. I worked in big wardrobe company where my task was to set up TopSolid Wood + Planner + CAM + Nesting + labeling + data to ERP + some small things more to produce faster and with less mistakes.
If You just started with CAM... I started with components into library and we took CAM + Nesting later (beam cnc + nesting) and I redesigned ALL components after first machinings. Why - how to position parts to machine, how to turn over parts, which side will be machined first, how to machine several cut-outs etc etc. Lot of small things, which are not possible to imagine without real machinings. So, be ready to make library at least twice :) I got lot of good advice how to make components smart and better way, but today I am working with 3rd library.

Due customer whishes I made very flexible components. Lot of cut-outs and when shelf corner is cutted, then You may need to move or switch off connectors. Sometimes shelf is connected to the building and connectors are not needed etc. This is very good video about components (he is using Planner, but You can work without it too, just some clicks more): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbtoiJ5lCko

Using laminates will be complicated, they still have some bugs. Also I don't know how parts thickness will work in Nesting.

Using edgebandings - Nesting don't calculate edgebanding thickness INTO part size, so nested parts are smaller, when edgebandings cut off their thickness from part. It's stoneage solution when edgebanding machines didn't had milling unit. Here are some workarounds to get right result.

Fittings can be used with parts, but to be ready to use them separately. Hinges - if thicknesses are variable, then You have to make nice switching system for hinge plates.

Parts - as shown on vide above - You will need separate parts and pre-assembled units. It's easier and faster to handle projects. Some will be in driver block and some in double wrap DB.

Materials can be handled in several ways, just sort out which will more suitable for You.

I am not sure, but do You really need detail drawings when You will use CAM? I used only views and section views, thats it. All parts information went directly to CNC through CAM. I think You will need this solution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-60Kvx9kfM

Corpora - depends which products You make. When they are like more standard, then template may have sides, and/or some other elements too.

It will take approx 1 year to have some nice workable solutions in Your library :) Basic testing, learning and failures will take at least 3 months. Take a deep breath and don't give up :)

RM

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:47 pm

Thank you for the repsonse. It still looks like a steep hill, but I'll just keep placing one foot in front of the other ;)

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by quazoosl » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:28 pm

RaudMees wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 pm
Using edgebandings - Nesting don't calculate edgebanding thickness INTO part size, so nested parts are smaller, when edgebandings cut off their thickness from part. It's stoneage solution when edgebanding machines didn't had milling unit. Here are some workarounds to get right result.
As I understand it now, the thickness of the edge bands need to be set correctly, and calculating with the entire panel size (including edgebandings) is defined in the panel>shape>characteristics and needs to be set to "edge shape"
For standard settings for new parts it should be under tools>options>TopSolidWood>define parts

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Re: Best practices

Unread post by RaudMees » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:43 pm

No. Check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y--d1GPAms&t=83s
The most important thing is "Use tools" ticker. It's shown in video. Make tests with and without tools.

RM

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